Do people even wear watches like that? Or do they keep them in a safe with other treasured possessions?

The pocket watch resembles a large oyster. It was commissioned by Henry Graves. The American banker approached Patek Philippe in 1933 and said, “I want you to make me the most complex and beautiful watch in the world.” This model – made entirely by hand – was the answer. Graves never had any intention of wearing the watch. There are, however, other collectors that do wear their valuable timepieces. The man who purchased a watch for 11 million Swiss francs a few months ago wears his with extreme care. And the watch looks so modest, you would never know how valuable it is.

“It’s about loving something, not just an investment.”
AUREL BACS

Are vintage watches an object of affection or simply an alternative form of investment?

I wish there were more aficionados than speculators. It’s about loving something, not just an investment. People don’t choose to marry someone for their bank balance – well, I hope not (laughs)! Thankfully, speculating on watches is not all that easy. But some people think all they have to do is buy a Patek Philippe or a Rolex, keep it for all of two years and then they can sell it for double the price. But it’s not as simple as that. The collector’s watch market is very complex and if you don’t have specialist knowledge and experience, you might get your fingers burnt.

Patek Philippe and Rolex are the two most iconic brands. Heuer is, however, becoming more and more popular. Are there any other brands where you see potential?
Every vintage watch has potential; they have to be rare, original and cannot be broken. But over 50 per cent of vintage watches are no longer originals because they have often been revised and restored. That is why I advise every collector to refrain from tinkering with them or cleaning them. Show your watch to a specialist. This will prevent you from doing any irreversible damage.

North America and Europe are the most important markets …

They used to be.

… and auctions are held regularly in Hong Kong. Which markets do you think are the most promising and who determines the price?

The great thing is that none of the countries determine the price. I don’t think that would be good if that were the case. On the contrary, we have struck a very good balance between America, Europe, the Middle East, the former Soviet states and Asia. The Hong Kong, Japanese and Taiwanese markets were big even 30 years ago. And over the last ten years, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and China have joined them. If one single market were to dominate and then disappear, this could lead to a major correction.

“Vintage is immensely popular at the moment. In today’s fast-living world where a lot is thrown away, the demand for vintage is greater than ever.”
AUREL BACS

Is the demand for vintage watches growing almost as a counter-trend to the digitalised world?

Absolutely – and that’s something that is measurable. Vintage is immensely popular at the moment. In today’s fast-living world where a lot is thrown away, the demand for vintage is greater than ever. A disposable item, let’s say a T-shirt for 9.90 Swiss francs, won’t give you anything to hold on to. A wooden chest of drawers inherited from your grandmother, on the other hand, gives you a feeling of solidity and eternity. More and more people today are wearing leather shoes in appreciation of items that last. Others collect wine rarities, rare art or old houses. Vintage is about exclusivity. Plenty people could buy a modern heavy-weight gold watch, and there is a genuine risk that you could meet somebody with exactly the same watch. This will not happen to you with a vintage watch; these are much rarer and have a unique history.

How do you find extraordinary watches?

It’s actually the opposite: the watches find me. Watch collectors are very discreet people. Most collectors I know have been active for 20 or 30 years. I have worked with many of them for just as long.

“There is a genuine risk that you could meet somebody with exactly the same watch. This will not happen to you with a vintage watch; these are much rarer and have a unique history.”
AUREL BACS

Bidders want to pay as little as possible, while you want to get the highest price. How do you draw them out?

The best auctioneer isn’t one who says the most, talks the loudest or for the longest time. The first thing you have to learn is that every collector has his own motive. One person might want a watch because they’ve been looking for one for 20 years to complete their collection. Another might want it because his friends said, “You’ve got to have this watch.” As an auctioneer, you have to know all the things that motivate collectors. Only by doing so can you offer the right watch at the right time.

Can you tell when somebody has reached or gone over their bidding limit?

Many collectors are very open with me before the auction and tell me that they’re going to bid up to 600,000 Swiss francs for a certain watch. Then, during the auction, they stop at 550,000. Others offer up to 900,000 Swiss francs and go over their personal limit. Few decisions are taken rationally on the collector’s market; they’re based on emotions and much more. Those are variables we cannot control. It is always a mystery how much a watch will actually go for.

“The best auctioneer isn’t one who says the most, talks the loudest or for the longest time. The first thing you have to learn is that every collector has his own motive.”
AUREL BACS

How many auctions do you organise a year?

Very few. Last year, we held four regular auctions; two in Geneva and two in Hong Kong. In addition to those, there were two special auctions dedicated to steel chronographs and the history of Rolex.

Your wife is also a watch expert. Together, you founded the company Bacs & Russo. Do you sometimes take advice from her?

Absolutely. The market is so complex that it’s not possible for one person alone to know it all. You always need somebody to ask difficult questions and challenge you.

What is it that made you decide to collaborate with the Phillips auction house?

Over the course of my long career, I have worked at three auction houses. Five years at Sotheby’s, three years at Phillips and ten years at Christie’s as head of the watch department. After my time at Christie’s, my wife and I decided that it was time for a break. We travelled around the world and enjoyed having time to ourselves. When we came back, I met with Edward Dolman. He is the CEO of Phillips and former CEO of Christie’s. He asked us if we’d like to work for Phillips. I politely declined. After several talks, he proposed a joint venture. He said, “Build up our department exactly how you think it should be.” My answer? Okay, sounds good. And the rest is history.

You concentrate on quality and organise only a few, but top-class auctions. How, in your opinion, should auction houses position themselves to ensure future success?

That is something every company has to decide for itself. I know what I enjoy. Thanks to my parents and grandparents, quality has always been important to me. That shows in many areas of my life. I’d rather spend the week eating fresh vegetables than bad meat. I’d rather live in a beautiful little house than an ugly big one. I have no intention of building up a volume business. For me, it is important to give every customer enough time to have a proper look at each watch. When I see how other companies auction off thousands of watches, yet employ less specialists than we do, I can only draw one conclusion: each expert spends less time with the watch and less time with the customer. That goes completely against my ideals.

“For me, it is important to give every customer enough time to have a proper look at each watch.”
AUREL BACS

Is there a watch that you’d really like to buy or sell at auction?

Yes, the next one! I look forward to getting my hands on new watches that I’ve never seen before. By that I mean collector’s pieces that may, for example, have been purchased in the 1940s and hidden away in a vault at a bank. And, who knows, maybe this could be the next record-breaking watch at auction. Finding watches like that is like a sailor discovering a new island. That’s what makes my job so exciting.